Resilience in Filmmaking and Beyond

In the latest episode of the Get Reelisms podcast, filmmakers Christine W. Chen and Adam Chase Rani delve into the trials and tribulations faced by creatives during challenging times. As both speakers open up about their personal experiences, they highlight the importance of resilience and adaptability in an ever-changing industry.

"It's okay if you're having a hard time right now," Christine begins, touching on a sentiment many can relate to, especially within the creative community. The idea that social media often portrays glamorized versions of success is misleading. Behind the scenes, even the most successful are struggling. Christine humorously remarks on her consideration of taking wedding gigs again—a step many might perceive as moving backwards. However, her friend Cynthia offers a refreshing perspective: "You're taking a step back so that you can jump."

Adam and Christine candidly discuss the current state of the film industry. Productions are slowing down due to factors like potential strikes and contractual negotiations. This environment forces many, even established professionals, to take on side jobs to make ends meet. As Christine recounts, she recently found herself teaching piano and taking a sound gig—roles she hasn’t considered in years.

"It's the survival of the people who are most tolerant to pain," Christine explains. In the face of uncertainty, she encourages embracing resourcefulness and resilience. Adam echoes this by acknowledging the tough times in Austin and commending those who persist through adversity.

Despite the struggles, both Adam and Christine emphasize the importance of staying creative for oneself. "Make it for yourself," Christine insists, encouraging artists to find fulfillment in the process rather than the outcome. This mindset helps mitigate the feelings of hopelessness that can arise when external validation seems scarce.

Adam shares his personal experience with scriptwriting, battling self-doubt but ultimately finding joy and growth in the process. "The art process is up and down. It's not linear," Christine reassures, highlighting that consistency can create opportunities, much like increasing the probability of success through repeated efforts.

As they dive deeper into the realities of being a creative in today's world, Adam remarks on the broader societal challenges we face, from global conflicts to political upheavals. Yet, amidst the chaos, the film industry offers a beacon of hope through its community and the genuine connections that form within it.

Christine and Adam stress the importance of supporting one another, both professionally and personally. Whether through volunteering or simply being there for friends during tough times, the strength of the community can propel us forward.

In closing, Christine tells a story about a recent panic-inducing experience with a corrupted audio clip. Yet, she maintains a focus on perseverance and learning from each experience. As the podcast wraps up, the key message remains: keep creating, stay resilient, and nurture the passion that drives you through life's ups and downs.

This episode serves as a reminder that the creative journey is filled with peaks and valleys. By supporting each other and staying true to our passions, we can navigate these uncertain times together.

In conclusion, these challenging times require filmmakers to be resilient, resourceful, and supportive of one another. Whether you're working on a personal project, volunteering, teaching, or networking within your community, remember that you're not alone. As Christine wisely advises, “Use this time to reconnect with your community. Stay in it, no egos, take whatever temp jobs you need to get through this."

We hope this blog post has offered you some valuable insights and encouragement. Keep pushing through, stay creative, and remember that the world of filmmaking is both a challenge and a privilege. Happy creating, everyone!

Christine W Chen: [00:00:00] It's okay if you're having a hard time right now. Yeah. Cause I don't think that's put out enough on social media, especially you're supposed to put all your successes out and all, look, I'm I went to this event and this other event, this event. Yes. I did go to all those events, but. I'm struggling like everybody else.

I'm yeah, like I said, I took a sound gig and then I took a I'm going, I'm thinking about shooting weddings, and I literally feel like I am going backwards, but like my friend Cynthia said, you're taking a step back so that you can jump.

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah. Yeah. And that's all we can do. We are the

Christine W Chen: Get Reelisms podcast.

Adam Chase Rani:
I am Adam Chase Rani

Christine W Chen:
and I am Christine Chen. And surprise, we're both filmmakers!

Adam Chase Rani: We get into it by sharing secrets, advice and gossip in filmmaking.

Christine W Chen: And we even get our other filmmaking friends to share theirs too.

Adam Chase Rani: So please everybody, join us

Christine W Chen & Adam Chase Rani: [00:01:00] for an ode to

Adam Chase Rani: filmmaking.
Welcome to another episode of the Get Reelisms podcast episode 143. I am Adam Chase Rani.

Christine W Chen: And I am Christine. Christine Chen,

Adam Chase Rani: we're back everybody. And don't pay any attention to Christine's nose ring. She's just in a phase in her life. She's going through some things right now.

Christine W Chen: I'm in

Adam Chase Rani: a midlife crisis, if you will.

Christine W Chen: No, it is very fake,
Adam Chase Rani: but it looks fucking sick though. I got to say, it doesn't look cool.
Christine W Chen: Keep it. Yeah, I'm like, really? Can I pull it off? Fuck it.
You should Yeah, I had worn this. For a role. So

Adam Chase Rani: You should partake in my journey of getting an arm sleeve tattoo.
Like I already have one, but I want to get this whole entire arm covered in tattoos. We should get our tattoos and we can share [00:02:00] tattoo ideas and shit like that. Dude.

Christine W Chen: Yeah. Okay. Let's do that. Yeah.

Adam Chase Rani: My parents would look sick. Oh really?

Christine W Chen: I should show up like this. I should show up like this too. I don't know if they could take. Tattoos.

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah,

Christine W Chen: that's the thing. I feel like I run into a possibility of him having a medical issue. And then I'll be like no, it's fake. It's fake. It's fake.

Adam Chase Rani: They just suffer a heart attack. And they're just like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's a joke. It's a joke.

Christine W Chen: Yeah. But yes, I had to dress up like a punk rock chick a few minutes ago.
It was the only time I had. They wanted a call back. Video basically before and today and I was like, oh my whole schedule is scheduled like till 10 p. m Tonight like there's no way that I can do it. I was like, I don't have 30 minutes now I'm just going to do a complete transformation

Adam Chase Rani: I love [00:03:00] it, this should be the You should dress up in like new like decades of like music, like you get like nineties pop with the puffy shoulder jackets and the puffy hair.

Christine W Chen: Yeah.

Adam Chase Rani: Puka shells. Yeah.

Christine W Chen: Puka shells. Puka shells. Yes. Yes. Yes.
I have plenty of nineties stuff. It's so weird because you go and walk into any store these days and you'll be like, Oh, I wore that in high school. That's when you're like, Oh, I am old. It is.

Adam Chase Rani: It is wild now, right? To see that like nineties is now retro.

Christine W Chen: Yeah. It's basically retro. I have a clear memory of my mom when I was in high school. My mom being like, I wore that before, but in also, so there must be just a thing, just like every 10 years you end up wearing the youth clothing of your parents.

Adam Chase Rani: I wish I had [00:04:00] that. Like I wear it. Like my dad had, my dad was very stylish when he was younger and he never keeps any of his clothes.

He always donates. He's just yeah, I'd just get rid of them. And he's just once they have a they start getting thinned and Fabric or whatever. It's starts to fray. Then he just gets rid of them. He doesn't think about it. He just, he likes to empty out his closet all the fucking time.
But yeah, like my dad had some fresh fucking threads, some European fresh threads, like from Tommy Hilfiger and stuff like that. Like my dad went nuts. No, I mean my, and that's the thing. Like my mom dresses like Like an extra from Roadhouse, back in the day and I mean that with a compliment, but she, it was just like lots of poofy hair and fucking like

Christine W Chen: my mom's still, my mom is stuck in the eighties forever.

Last time I was like, mom, you shouldn't perm your hair. Cause it's like bad for your hair.
Adam Chase Rani: It's so bad. Yeah.
Christine W Chen: It's so bad. And she's no, you don't understand. This is my look. I'm like, okay,

Christine W Chen & Adam Chase Rani: mom, it's very bad for your hair.

Adam Chase Rani: I guess because [00:05:00] they know it, they feel comfortable with it.
So there's yeah, I'm just going to do this all the time.

Christine W Chen: It's like mask.

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah. My uncle uses like an abundant amount of hair gel. Like all the time that I see him for family gatherings. It's he has and he doesn't have a ton of hair either. So like he has his slick back hair and he uses gel.
And I'm like, do you do that every day? He's every day. Like that and he's like in his like sixties or yeah, like late sixties. And I'm just like, you're still using hair gel like that. That's fucking wow.

Christine W Chen: It's called commitment. Is commitment.

Adam Chase Rani: I guess so. But that much hair gel that long cannot be good for, for you, there's no way.

Christine W Chen: Is commitment. Just like you're committed to filmmaking.

Adam Chase Rani: Listen we're shooting this shit here. It's a free podcast, Christine. Sometimes we have news. Sometimes we talk film

Christine W Chen: detours

Adam Chase Rani: and then sometimes it's just a couple of episodes. We just [00:06:00] detour. I was, how's

Christine W Chen: I was, how's your side of life?

How's Austin? It's fine. I'm coming by the way.

Adam Chase Rani: You are when?

Christine W Chen: Yeah. I'll be I think I'm going to be in Dallas first to see Marsha. Front of a podcast. Oh which is before the 21st, so a few days before the 21st. And then I get in around the 21st. And then I am going to be helping out with Mia Schell's first short film.
And then celebrating my 39th birthday.

Adam Chase Rani: Holy shit.

Christine W Chen: On the 28th. This is so sad.

Adam Chase Rani: On the 28th of April?

Christine W Chen: April, yeah. We're all gonna celebrate. Yeah, together. Together. So yes, April.

Adam Chase Rani: Fuck yeah.

Christine W Chen: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yes. I'm getting my Texas fix. Yeah, you get.

Adam Chase Rani: So those are the only gigs is just Michelle's short film.

Christine W Chen: Yeah. Okay. And it also just, I just, I really miss. I miss Texas a lot.

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah. But knowing you, I feel like [00:07:00] you're going to pick up two more gigs before you it's going to be like the last second, like in the last week or two.

Christine W Chen: Technically I have a second one. The second one I'm remote on because the person who's is in Austin is leaving to go to the gig that he wanted me on, but I'm going to Austin.

So I'll be working on it simultaneously, but it'll just, I'll just be remote. So it's

Adam Chase Rani: convenient.

Christine W Chen: Yeah, it's cool. But yeah, no, it's still slow as f in good old Los Angeles, and it's interesting if people are following along it might be good to address it because I know a lot of people are feeling really frustrated about it, and I think when you're in it, like here in LA you just hear why a lot of people who are on the outskirts of it don't hear rumors and don't quite understand why it's so slow.

So we don't know. It's just because there is. The possibility of a IOTI strike and they are in the process of negotiating their contracts. And so [00:08:00] until I did read the news that The ASC, the, I believe camera had a pretty successful negotiation, but yeah, but I don't know how the other ones go. Because I asked, he's a huge organization.

There's many departments that are that are negotiating right now. So it's pretty neat cause I was at the DGA Is it two weeks ago? I can't remember anymore. Like the negotiations were happening at the DGA. So I went to go see a panel on VFX and you could see on the other side, there was like a bunch of crew coming in and everything.

It was for the IOTC negotiations. So that is the benefit of being here in Los Angeles is you are inundated in everything, all the things that are coming firsthand. And yeah, so that's what's happening, that's why everything slows, because a lot of productions are realizing, hey, either for [00:09:00] where their budgets are at currently, that they have to rethink where they shoot, because they can't fulfill a lot of the new contractual agreements, and so a lot of productions, unfortunately, are moving overseas.

Or, they're just not starting, period, because they're worried about, starting, stopping, starting, stopping. That is why everything is so slow, and as we know, it's, the industry is always a trickle down effect. When the top of the, when the people in the unions aren't working, they're not making their films, which therefore, the smaller stuff also is affected as well, indie stuff.

Yeah, so somebody was saying like, Hey What do we do? And my advice at this moment is that you just have to do whatever you can to survive at this point, just be scrappy and resourceful. There is no shame to take whatever gig you need to do right now to just try to [00:10:00] stay in the game just a little bit longer.

I was at DPs and directors. And I we were just I was shooting the shit and saying hey I'm at this close to being to wanting to take wedding gigs again

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah, I

Christine W Chen: used to shoot weddings and there's you know, no shame in that. It was a very good I paid a lot of my bills that way. Yeah. And it was just a period of time where I didn't have to do them anymore.

And I never thought I would come back full circle and say, Hey, maybe I do need to shoot some weddings again. But yeah, it's at this point, it's like survival of the person, of the people who are the most tolerant. to pain. What is your pain tolerance? Really where we are right now. What is your pain tolerance?

Adam Chase Rani: So especially we went through this [00:11:00] a year ago, And it's just it's really frustrating. Like you said, it's nice to I don't know yeah, it's it's nice to have a a fallback, you know on something that you And there's no shame in any of that because you have to do what you have to do And yes, Yeah it's the same thing on my end, it's been pretty slow with with Austin.

So everybody's hitting it. As far as for me, for art department I know it's probably pretty okay for some. It's just, it's been rough and I'm sure it's been rough for a lot of people, yeah.

Christine W Chen: It's been, it's, and just, I think the biggest thing is knowing that this is a strange time and you're not it's not rough just for you, it's not because you did a bad job or anything.

It's just rough overall. And. So on Tuesdays here in LA, there is like the special gathering of ADs. And you hear it, you just hear people having to resort to lots of people driving Uber right now. These are like DGA ADs. [00:12:00] Okay. They're, they're driving Uber. Some of them are taking a little side gigs and everything.

I, myself I teach, so I teach piano. I did a job in sound. Last week. Sound.

Adam Chase Rani: Doing what?

Christine W Chen: It was easy stuff. That's why I was confident enough to take it. But it was just interviews and I've done plenty of interviews as a one person team, so I was like, yeah, I can do oh,

Adam Chase Rani: okay. So you were mixing.
Okay, got it.

Christine W Chen: I was mixing. Yes, but I ran into the worst. Thing that you could possibly run into. I'm like, okay, finally have a decent paid gig. I do everything perfectly, cause I've ran many interviews. And I get home to dump the card and guess what?

Adam Chase Rani: Oh no. What?

Christine W Chen: My first clip on the card is corrupted.

Adam Chase Rani: At [00:13:00] that point, did you like just want to go to the roof of your home and just fucking act?

Christine W Chen: Yeah! I was having a full on panic attack.

Adam Chase Rani: I would too. That would fuck me up. I learned a lot about.

Christine W Chen: Yeah, it was, I, it was, I was like, I could not believe this is happening because I done this so many times and I have, it's just there's no walking away from it because either way you look like an idiot, even if it's not your fault, how do you tell a client?
Oh yeah, I fucked up. We lost the entire sound for one of your interviews. Sure. It was one out of Eight, but that's still one too many.

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah, it's still oh,

Christine W Chen: I just, all I could do was I just did the best I could in terms of trying to recover it and showed them that I did my best to do that.

Adam Chase Rani: That. Yeah. At that point, what do you do? Yeah. It's just, it is what it is.

Christine W Chen: I think you just accept that you probably won't be hired for that ever again. Yeah.

Adam Chase Rani: [00:14:00] I'm sorry, dude. That's fucking, that's whore. That's the thing of nightmares.

Christine W Chen: That's a, stay kind and gentle yourself.

We are all human. I know the problem is like production is the least forgiving. They are very, yeah.

Adam Chase Rani: They're not forgiving.

Christine W Chen: People think. Yeah, that you're supposed to just be perfect all the time. But that was the worst. Yeah. Discovering this and being like, great, this is cool. This is exactly what I wanted.

But yeah, so I have one of those weeks. I and then I did another gig that was just camera hopping. And it was fine. So I don't know. You just said none of us can do it. Can cast stones. I know. So brutal. I'm so sorry to hear this. Yeah. It's the worst, but I think the rule of thumb is shit happens and you just got to keep on keeping on.

And [00:15:00] my, I, my really good actually a friend of the podcast, Cynthia Wade she's a Emmy winning, Oscar winning director. She, I went to the networking event with her. She was the one who told me, you need to go to this. I said, okay, fine. And I, we were having dinner and I was just saying man, sometimes I feel like I'm going backwards, like literally going backwards.

I'm taking these gigs that I would have been charging 10 times the amount in Austin, oh

Adam Chase Rani: yes.

Christine W Chen: Because, yeah, because of my skill level and everything. And she said, Wait, this is not serving. She said, you're not going backwards. You're taking a step back so that you can jump.

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah.

Christine W Chen: That resonated so much to me. Because there will be times in your life where you feel like you are. That's where I am right now. I literally feel like I [00:16:00] am going backwards. I talked to Roxy about this, too. She's there's time points in her life when she transitioned over here that it was the same thing.

She was like doing the smaller gigs again. She already worked up from, she was doing all the odd jobs to survive and everything. And that's it so that you can reestablish yourself. In a higher, bigger pool and hopefully from that, it will set you up for the future and it's hard in that moment to see that because all you can see in that moment is oftentimes that you are doing something that is maybe what you started off doing in the very beginning of your career, so

Adam Chase Rani: yeah, it's just that, it.

Christine W Chen: I just remember, I have to keep reminding myself that [00:17:00] sometimes you have to take a step back to jump and it makes sense. Like you think about it when business remodels, what they had to do, they shut down their whole business. Do you think they're making money during that whole renovation? No, they're making zero money.

In fact, they are spending money, right? They are, but they are making it better. And then they reopened and it's like, Oh, wow. New renovations. People like it more and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But that's with every new rebirth of something, there's always like a moment of you're not going to be able to perform at the same level at all times.
Sometimes there's a step back.

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah, totally. Yeah. It's been dark times for a while for a lot of people, including myself, and. It shows a lot of, it shows a lot of power for people who [00:18:00] still stick with this because it's, it, it gets, it's hard. Y'all it's not an easy thing.
And this is is someone who like such as yourself has been in the industry for a while. And pretty established to there in, and even then and you said that you said like even other people in the DGA are also like taken fucking Uber side hustles and stuff like that.
And not

Christine W Chen: just saying this there's a perspective. Yeah. Everybody's yo, I'm. Right now, waiting tables or right now I am doing Uber or somebody's like an usher and all these little things and it's just Oh, it gives you perspective and especially obvious.

Adam Chase Rani: Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Christine W Chen: No, it's just like on social media.

You don't put that stuff right. You don't put all the struggles that you are. And so there's a false sense that you are that everybody else is succeeding, but you, but it's not. [00:19:00] You just don't see it. That's all.

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah, no, all I was going to say was like even the people waiting tables and like working in companies and such like that, like it's even harder in, in their instance, because.

It's the more that they remove themselves away from just the film industry in general of course there's people who work in production and like commercial specifically and stuff like that as like side hustles, quote unquote, in instead of like the, features and shorts and whatever that we usually, Prefer to work on because there's just more fun that, you know, for that shit.

But yeah it's a struggle for everybody. And for the people who are going back to like other industries and like customer service. Shit is really hard because it's consistent money, it's consistent money and it's hard to just be like okay, I need to put food on the table.
I need to do, [00:20:00] I need to do certain things in order for me to make sure that I'm, we're surviving.

Christine W Chen: Your basic needs

Adam Chase Rani: are met and I will say I'm very fortunate that I didn't have to, because I made the, I made I made it clear to myself and I made sure that I would never go back To retail, I would just understand that I would figure this out because the moment you do that, it's you go back to an immediate rotary thing when like every year you tell yourself like, Oh, it's just going to be four, six, seven, eight months.

And then that'll be good. And who knows where the film industry is going to be then. I certainly hope it's going to be better. I'm sure it will. Yeah, no I definitely know it, it will because there is always a point in history, especially I was like watching a documentary on this not so long ago that like the sixties were hitting high fucking times for cinema.

They were like at the top and then they had a bad fucking [00:21:00] crash because everybody was making fucking Westerns. Everybody was going to Italy and making Westerns in the late sixties. And they were just like this is, this sucks. There's just a bunch of white people on horses all the fucking time.
I don't want to see this anymore. And then the seventies happened. That's when you get Scorsese, De Palma, fucking Spielberg. You have all of these fucking crazy filmmakers that took what was called At the time is a pretty small budget, but the studios were very determined and I hate to say desperate.
They were desperate to have like movies, like good movies in cinemas. And those directors, for better, for worse, fucking saved cinema. They really saved the idea of what movies are supposed to be and whatnot and what it means to all of us. And, not to say that Westerns aren't it, but fuck, how [00:22:00] close is it with that whole, Western shit that now is like superhero shit, where it's just we're constantly seeing that all the fucking time.

There's some superhero shit that's pretty fucking sick in my opinion. But of course you have a few in a sea of thousands. It's,

Christine W Chen: Yeah, I think I called it the changing of the guard, which is basically there is a natural progression where at a certain point things retire. And I think it's just a natural, like you said, there in the seventies, there was a new group of filmmakers, right?

It's a wave. And now it's the same thing. It's like Hollywood has gotten to this bloated period point. And it's the bubble, it's burst, and now this is the time for, either studios to figure out how they want to restructure things or or for filmmakers to pop in [00:23:00] and do their innovative work being, scrappy and whatnot.
I don't know, I'm always, I love indie I'm indie girl at heart. For always, because that's like the innovators to me, it's like the startup world, you got the startups and you got the corporations and studios are corporations. Yeah, and then only through Indies and you got, it makes sense in a corporation, you just have a lot of red tape.

There are lots of layers of bureaucracy and each of those layers takes you further away from the initial creativity. Yeah. Because you are beholden to decision makers that hold the money and you follow where the money goes. And when you are small and scrappy, like a startup, like indie film, you're able, you have less layers.

It's just you making the decisions. [00:24:00] And so you are able to try new things and test new things. the boundaries of whether something's going to work or not because you are not beholden. You don't owe anything to the layers of bureaucracy. You are the decision maker. And that's the exciting part is that, but that is also the part where you also have to suffer a lot because you don't have the resources like the corporations do.

So that's, it's just, that's what you, it's your give and take, right? It's, you have the money, but you. To get that money, you have to answer to a lot of people, or you don't have as much money. You answer to yourself. Therefore, you are able to take bigger risks because of that. And I think what we saw in the 70s was just, we just saw a lot of these new filmmakers that were, [00:25:00] that could take risks that didn't play by the rules because they were making their own rules.

Adam Chase Rani: And imagine a mechanical shark that floats in the fucking water that kills people is a successful, like a major milestone in cinema history. Who would have thought that who, what studio would see that a short Jewish man walking into the office, be like mechanical shark eats people underwater, dragging them and killing them.

If I was a studio head, I'd be like, get the fuck out of my office. What are you saying right now?

Christine W Chen: This is what exactly they would ask. They'd be like, yeah, you give me some comps as successful projects that are like this. And could you tell me, could you run the numbers and tell me Like when we're going to make our return on investment, can you work out the numbers for me,

Adam Chase Rani: please?

Christine W Chen: Could you work out? Could you, cause that's how, when we pitch, that's what happens. Yeah. Cause you're pitching to money [00:26:00] people. And the best way is just is to, they want to know what in what works currently in the world that you can compare this to what makes sense. Cause most people. They're risk averse.

And what does risk averse mean? It means, risk means taking a chance on something that hasn't had a proven path, essentially. Which means a lot of these things don't exist. They're literally, they are innovations. And that is hard for a risk averse person to grasp. They are crunching numbers, making models, and whatnot.

And the model says that if you put people in Marvel films There will be an X percentage of people who will go and watch those said films. Therefore, according to [00:27:00] our math, it makes sense to sink more money into what already works. And that is why you get Marvel film after Marvel film, because that the first two or three did make lots of money.

And that is why you need filmmakers who are like, fuck it. I'm just going to go. Yeah. They told me I'm not going to, we're not supposed to make Westerns. I'm going to go make a Western because I want to make a Western, and then, or whatever you want to make. And suddenly out of the, Rubble comes the one film that everybody is like, what is this?
This is amazing. I want to watch it. And then it's a huge success. And then the studios all go, I want to do that too.

Adam Chase Rani: Let's do it over and over and over again.

Christine W Chen: Let's do it over and over and over again. And that's the cycle of films.

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah.

Christine W Chen: Yeah.

Adam Chase Rani: But it's interesting [00:28:00] nowadays that we have the streaming wars, at least People still say we're in the streaming wars.

I don't believe we are. I believe that the streaming services are the established giants. You know what I mean? Your Netflix is your Hulu's your Amazons. You're all that shit, right? I feel like it's interesting. Now you would imagine that because I was talking about this with a family member and, There was no correct way to answer it because my, she, we were talking and she was just like, I don't understand why there are so many horrible fucking shows and horrible movies.

This is this coming from her. I see horrible shit coming from all these fucking apps. And yet you tell me like there are talented filmmakers and there are lots of, why am I not seeing it? Like part of it is, yeah, it's, is the algorithm shit. Like I explained, but also it was like, she was like, yeah, but more than that [00:29:00] though, you would see at least something that works, right?

Like something that is like, Whoa, what the fuck? But she's it's mostly the old films. It's mostly like in the eighties and shit like that. And the seventies.

Christine W Chen: It's just, there's a lot of noise right now. That's what we're all fighting against is there's I've been listening to a lot of podcasts and all that stuff, but it's the, you got to stand out above the noise.

So what most people do, what most studios do is they throw more money to become louder. So then it's just a bunch of people throwing money. Marketing is what it is. And so then you get all the trash, like basically just being louder and louder and louder. And the problem is a lot of the stuff that is good takes time to organically find an audience because they don't have money.

They can't throw money at marketing to be louder than the people who have millions of dollars to throw money [00:30:00] to be loud at. So that's when you will later discover, oh, I really like that film. And you go tell, that's why it's so important if you want to do your part to talk about the movies you do enjoy.

Okay. Hey, like I really enjoy this movie. Oh, hey, I didn't really and you spread the word. That's why everything everywhere all at once was such a phenomenon in the film industry is because that's an independent film. Yes, A24 and all that stuff pushed it, but like it's it had great word of mouth, but it had no The marketing budget was there's nothing compared to whatever came out from the studios at that point, and so That's the, that's why you don't see it until much later, the older films, see, you don't see it until it's become older or that's why cult films take so long to become a cult film is because it's all word of mouth and people, telling other people and that's slow.

It's you're literally doing the telephone tree at this point. Yeah. Yeah. And [00:31:00] that's just, that's just the reality of it, yeah. Josh said, paranormal activity. Yeah. That was a success. Every single freaking person wanted to make a paranormal activity or a Blair witch.
And we still have people still trying to do that.

Adam Chase Rani: But it's a good point that Josh brought up because at a one point back in 2008, like found footage horror, like the only one that we've had was Blair witch project. That was like monumental in America. I think there was another found footage thing that was like in, Another country.

I can't remember. But that was a monumental thing. And to have something like Paranormal Activity to shoot on essentially no budget. And you have a couple of people who I think know stunts or something like that, or is affiliated or understand stunts can do like the crazy shit that happens in the fucking house and shit.
And with use of like very minimal CGI and make it compelling and convincing, for fucking nothing. And then, so they're like, yeah, this fucking rules, let's make 90, [00:32:00] 000 of them. So it just makes sense to do it that way. Because if it works the first time, why not do it the next 5 billion fucking times?

Christine W Chen: 5 million copies of this thing, which is, it's interesting because so much good content is coming internationally. We say that, but the thing is that by the time it gets to us, we get the cream of the crop. So it feels like if it feels like, Oh, all the good stuff is international. But the thing is we're literally getting the best stuff by the time it trickles over here, exactly.

So we're just in that right now in the U S we're in it. We're The good stuff is just taking a long time to rise up because of lack of funding and marketing and all sorts of jazz because there's noise being made by [00:33:00] people who can easier, yeah.

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah,

Christine W Chen: because you think about like for the Academy Awards and stuff, like they just pick one from that country.

It's like the one film that represents the entirety of Japan. The entirety of Germany or wherever it is, right? The one film out of how many? Yeah. Probably a crap ton. Yeah.

Adam Chase Rani: There's probably a ton. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And not to say that they don't, haven't earned it any less than, Yeah, exactly.

Like a Godzilla or something like that. There are, I know there are plenty of Japanese films that were fucking awesome. They were bangers.

Christine W Chen: They, we know we'll never hear because it can't, It just can't make it over here.

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah. Or at least have the marketing or the distribution of, yeah.
It's just, it's there's so many. Fucking who it just, yeah, the world of film is very fickle and it's very yeah, like I hate using the [00:34:00] word luck because I feel like it has nothing to do with.

Christine W Chen: I feel like,

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah. I'm willing to with any success. I'm willing to concede that like word of mouth is damn near fucking luck.
Yeah I'm willing. I'm willing to say that. But part of that, though, with the luck is the work ethic, the sometimes a talent. But it all depends on your hustle. It all depends on your, on, on how much time and how much energy and sacrifices you made to make that fucking thing happen.
As much as anybody would say that one movie can be more successful than the other. That's absolutely true. It can still have its own success. Nonetheless. If, fucking, I was stoked to have on my podcast Adamis Chase podcast on YouTube.

I was stoked to see that, like I had, like I've been bouncing between a hundred to 200 views and then I get 500 views. [00:35:00] One, one podcast. And I'm like, this is fucking everything, but I know I've watched video. I'm not an idiot. I know there's videos that make like fucking billions of views and shit like that.
I'm not dumb, but at the same time, it's you gotta celebrate the little successes that you do have. And the things that you have worked on and the things that, you thought was going to be bigger, but you it turns out it, it found its own way of success, and how people determine that and how people really see that it depends, but if it for you, for yourself, I don't know. I feel like at least for me, I know that just even having a little bit of attention to it for the people who watch even this podcast, like it means the world to me because it just like it shows that like somebody gives a shit.
Christine W Chen: Somebody is listening and I appreciate that. Yeah. How do you continue to make things when it sucks?

Christine W Chen: When you don't [00:36:00] know if anybody cares, it's because you make it for yourself. Yeah, you have to, in the end, a lot of the times you have to you have to love the process so much that you don't care who watches.

Adam Chase Rani: You, you literally said it make it for yourself. I had to remind myself that. with even this script that I'm writing with a manipulator. Like I definitely felt like nobody's going to want to watch this. Like, why am I even wasting my time? And I've, I still have that all the time, but you realize as I go through it, I, with cooler heads, always prevail.

So whenever I, get a snack or I take a nap or whatever the fuck that gets me to just feel better and feel okay. I look back at it, Or I watch a movie and I just, if it feels like I have that creative vigor inside of me, I go back to the script and I realized it's not that bad.
There's a lot of things to fix for sure, but it's nothing that is like completely broken. I cannot fix, it's not beyond that point. So I just [00:37:00] have to keep myself there, but I've had bad days. And this is my first script. I don't know. I don't know if this is going to work.

Christine W Chen: It's your, it's, I think the art process is up and down.
It's not linear. Most of the time it's like this the whole way up. Yeah. And that's why the consistency matters. And when I say luck, It's, you can create your own luck because luck is all about like something that's low probability, and an outlier, per se. But, if you increase the number of times you're doing something, you're increasing the probability of something happening.

So you are essentially creating your own luck. So if you're making, you write one script, and you put it out there, and nobody sees it, and that's it, That's your, that's the only probability that you will have success. But if you throw out 10 scripts, sure. One of those times, maybe if the luck works out [00:38:00] and it just takes one, and so yeah, is that it's the consistency and the thing is most, the great thing is that humans have set the bar very low. Most humans cannot. Be consistent because being consistent is beyond motivation half the time I'm not motivated to do to write more in a library by myself with a bunch of homeless people Like just like I'd rather be outside hiking going to go spend money that I don't have on that nice coffee or You know go out and enjoy myself, right?

but That's my, that's, so if you rely on motivation purely, it's not going to get you anywhere. No. But if it's just, if you rely on every day, I have to spend two to three hours writing, no matter what. Every day, no matter who's watching, who gives a shit, maybe nobody's ever [00:39:00] going to see it again, it's for myself.

Then, you do that a few months, a few years, you'll look back and be like, oh, shit. Like I have improved. That's the cool. I think that's the, and I think us as humans too, we, when we are in the moment, I think oftentimes time passes a lot quicker than does in reality. If that makes any sense. So I recently had to go through my photos to, to find a specific photo.
And I had a realization that I haven't really been in LA that long. It sure feels like I've been here forever. I'm so annoyed with it.

Christine W Chen: But I looked at through my photos and it wasn't really that bad. Like I've, I was on these different sets and I've clearly done some projects. I've clearly been to just some cool events and everything.[00:40:00]
And just sometimes it's really nice to take a step back and just reflect and realize that, Hey, You have improved, even though in that moment, it feels like you are literally not doing anything that seems like is driving anything forward. The fact that you did the same thing, you. Kept writing, you stared at the same blank page, but a few more, two more words came out, a whole scene came out that is one more scene than you had before.
And that's, I think that's the biggest thing we can remember. And especially during times that are rough. Cause it's easy when things are good. That's the easy part is when things are great, right? It's like in a relationship, the best part of a relationship is when everything's perfect. Yeah.

Adam Chase Rani: But you can only write it for so long, correct. Yeah.

Christine W Chen: But it's the worst parts of a [00:41:00] relationship that you actually go deeper. That you actually learn about each other. That you get into the non surfacey things, right? That's it's the same with friends. It's it's only when you need, it's the, Hey, when we're all happy, having a great time, we go, we all have money, and we all go out and drink and whatever.

Sure, everybody can have a great time. When, where are the people who, when you are at the very bottom, you have nothing to offer, then they're still there. Those are your relationships. Those are the people who give a shit about you. And so that is why it's during these tough times that it's the people who stick with it.
And there is no motivation. It sucks. It really does. You right now, nobody's watching, everybody. Everybody's broke. [00:42:00] But you continue to create because it is who you are. You continue to create because you love the process. You continue to create because you really love it.

Totally. Oh, yeah. You continue to open up the freaking laptop, even when there are no ideas, but you do it because you, you believe that by the time you're through this time, like you will have improved and you'll be on the other side, so I'm emotional because it's really hard right now.

Adam Chase Rani: It really is. Yeah, it's okay.

Christine W Chen: I want people to know that this is a real thing and it's okay if you're having a hard time right now, yeah.

Because I don't think that's put out enough. On social media especially, you're supposed to put all your successes out. Oh, look, I went to this event, and this other event, this event, yes, I did go to all those events. But I'm struggling like everybody else. [00:43:00] I'm Yeah, like I said, I took a sound gig.

And then I took a I'm going, I'm thinking about shooting weddings. And I literally feel like I am going backwards. But like my friend Cynthia said, You're taking a step back so that you can jump.

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah. Yes. And that's all we can do, yeah, it, yeah it's rough, but like you said, it's like the, you can't just depend on motivation alone.

There's gotta be a productivity with it. There's gotta be a work ethic. You have to be consistent within yourself. And if you want to make it for yourself, and it just also too, we don't need to get deep into it, but also too, it's like the state of the world. is a tremendous weight on all of us. It's this November. We have another election. [00:44:00] There are, there's a whole conflict in the Middle East. There's everything is happening everywhere all at once, unfortunately in, in the worst fucking way.
And it sucks. But to persevere and to see that like we have people even in our film industry that give a shit about each other. And that is just all the fucking motivation that even if you call it motivation, it's just, that there are people who are going to be there. So it's almost A way to know that you have friends and it's okay to talk to somebody about it too.

Fuck, it's great for us to even do this podcast, also got to be real with ourselves and know that we got to keep pushing for the things that we love. And this is at least for me, even writing is what I love. Even though 50 percent of this podcast is me being like, I can't stand writing, but it's, I enjoy [00:45:00] it.
I do love it. And I learn every single day. I do. Even when I'm staring, like you said, at the blank page and just, nothing's going on. Yeah of course. Like that, that always happens, but to write those few words or sentences or any of that makes all of the difference. And it go, it applies to everything in life.

Not just the film industry, but yeah, it just is. It just is a bad time for so many fucking people, especially who aren't in the film industry. And I, and there's a thing that, that I noticed too. It's like I read something on Twitter and it resonated with me. And it was just like it's like an example of the state of the world summed up in one tweet.

I know it's kind of cliche and dumb, but it is basically like everybody is throwing the word around. which is love. Everybody's saying that, just throwing love around, but I, we have yet to fucking see it. You know what I mean? It's [00:46:00] like for so many people and for so many of us, it is we always say we're going to do one thing, but never really do it.
We always say that we we're gonna, we're going to call our, long lost friend, but never actually do it or finally work on that pet project of yours. That you've waited so long to do, but you never going to do it. It's we say that we have all this love, but it's just it might be a pessimistic way of looking at things for that.
I apologize, but it's, It just, it feels real to me because I just, I want to work with people who are genuine and people like Christine are very fucking genuine, and even people friends of the podcast and every, almost every single guest that we've had are essentially like, people who are passionate and creative in the field that they are in.

And, you just give them one One thing and they just go flying and it fills me with joy it It gives me so much hope and it gives me so much Inspiration to know that there are [00:47:00] people just where I am right now Who are also going through? a lot of fucking stupid Bullshit that is just like happening all around us, and as long as we know we're going through it, we stick together and we can achieve we can achieve the impossible, and I do have that faith and belief in all of us, especially people who are negotiating and this IOTC thing. Can take the next few minutes to take this plane for a landing.

But yeah I think I think Christine said it the best and just keep making shit for yourself. Y'all, that's just that's like the, because that's the one
Christine W Chen: thing you can control. That's the thing. What you can't control is yourself and how you react to the environment around you right now.

So things that you can control you. You don't have to be motivated, but you can control you creating, whatever that means. That could mean you're writing. This could mean getting a few people [00:48:00] together who are like, let's just make something. You can control that. You can control how you help other people.
You have lots of time now. So go volunteer. I did that, go. That is helpful because it's also nice to know that Hey, No matter how you feel right now, there are going to be, so there are still many, you're still very privileged. We are still very privileged. And there are people, other people in this world that are having a much harder time.

Then we are. So context that gives context, you could help other people.

Adam Chase Rani: Not to say that we also don't go through and have our own set of problems. We do. Yeah. We do have our own set of problems, too.

Christine W Chen: That's another thing. There's no shame, no pride. There's no exactly. You can also go in and ask them to help.
The only thing would be the next time you're in a position to repay that in some form or fashion with your time, with money or whatever, then you do that. But it's but in, Yeah, there's no you can only fix yourself. Yeah, like it [00:49:00] really sucks right now Like I could you know, yeah, you hopefully will have friends and stuff that are that won't let You know, so ask for help.

Don't don't let your prior ego get in the way.

Adam Chase Rani: No there's no need but yeah With that being said y'all I appreciate everyone Tuning in keep making movies. Keep watching shit be inspired, if anything, it's just, now's the time, more than any, I know that sounds so fucking stupid for people who are watching.

Christine W Chen: You can ask stocks right now. When do you buy stocks when it's at the lowest point?

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah. But

Christine W Chen: this is like right now, just, you just got to get through this little hump. That's all.

Adam Chase Rani: It's just, but for the heroes out there working two, three, four, five fucking jobs.

Yeah, I know it's hard to say, find inspiration. It's bitch, I got fucking dozen jobs. I have to spin around. I got bills to [00:50:00] pay. I don't got time to find some, Fucking inspiration, but I got it. I gotta say you gotta find, you gotta find some sort of inspiration because it's the, at least it's the one thing that gets me out of bed.
It was the one thing that got me out of bed, even working retail for 10 fucking years of my life. Like knowing that there is something at the end of the rainbow. Yeah, I keep promising me, I keep promising myself every single year that some is going to come up, something's going to come up. And 10 years later, Now That happens.

It happened, but I, again, I gotta be consistent within myself because I can only help myself really. Before I need to be starting to help others. And that's, that was the one thing I've learned over the years recently even is to just really listen to yourself and just know what's happening, before you

Christine W Chen: Before you start to, put the oxygen mask on yourself first,

Adam Chase Rani: right? Yeah, exactly.

Christine W Chen: Take care of yourself.

Adam Chase Rani: Yeah, I'm [00:51:00] fucking name, ladies and gentlemen, but we know we know to quench that that film school education, then to go to get realisms. com, pick up your book today. That's just it's all part of the, it's all part of the plan. You know what I mean?

To get filmmakers out here,
Christine W Chen: get learned.

Adam Chase Rani: Get learnin and makin fuckin movies and shit. Makin Feechies, makin Shorties, makin commercials even, you, you still be creative with commercials, people have. We saw that Zack Snyder Joe Rogan episode, zack Snyder with his whole like, I think crazy things with an Apple commercial, and I just, I have the money, and I just, I do it all.
Just alright, whatever. Haha. I'm sorry. I don't mean to make fun of him. I do like Zack Snyder, but whatever, it doesn't matter. We've already gone too long, but I appreciate y'all. Thank you so much for tuning in and we'll catch you next time. Peace out Instagram and peace out Facebook.

We love [00:52:00] you.